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Hi all,

I just landed another gizmo for my collection:

HP67 + goodies

I must admit I thought I would be outbid, but I guess traffic was slow these days. I never thought I would acquire a working 67 + extra goodies for so much less than $300. This one is apparently working, save the predictable dead battery and crumped card reader. The accoutrements are not complete--the Standard Pac consists of 15 cards and the Surveyor Pac 26 (according to the manuals), but the seller tells me that there are only 39 preprogrammed cards with the set. So there are 2 cards missing.

The only thing that I can't make out is the issue of cosmetics. In the glare of the flash the keypad looks like it has wear and grime on it. In the actual 67, is the keypad metal with painted labels, or a matte plastic surface with injection molded labels as in the 45? I am trying to discern whether the irregular sheen around keys is the glossing of the matte surface due to wear and use, or whether it is a painted surface that has faded or worn, or whether it is just dirty. In the one shot beside its case much of the silver trim seems intact (a good sign) so I wonder if much of the crud I see is just the glare of an unforgiving flash.

I guess I will know for sure when the mail comes in a couple of weeks, but I am just wondering if anyone has any thoughts while I wait for yet another delivery....

best,

Les

Edited: 31 Dec 2006, 4:38 a.m. after one or more responses were posted

The wear looks fairly minor. The keyboard deck is plastic. It tends to become 'polished' in spots around the keys by finger action and oils, and of course it can accumulate dirt and grime as well. The camera flash probably makes it look worse than it does in person. Dirt and the uneven smoothing of the plastic around the keys will reflect light to differing degrees and make the deck look more textured than it would in person. It probably needs to be cleaned but overall it looks very good. Congratulations, good one!

Thanks Steve.

Am I correct about the "census" of preprogrammed cards? I reviewed the manuals on the DVD and that is the count I got. Hopefully the missing cards don't have anything of great interest to me on them.

Also, what to make of that misplaced red spot between the zeros but above, not where the decimal point is? The lowbat warning occurs in the lower right, so that is not it. I am hoping for flash glare, not defective LED. And of course it is always a crap shoot on the card reader. The ubiquitous gummy wheel, I am sure, but there is always a chance of something more sinister.

Thanks for the reassurance. The seller has been very kind and helpful, but reselling HPs is not really her expertise.

Les


Edited: 31 Dec 2006, 3:31 a.m.

The red spot I would say is just flash reflection off of the LED lens, nothing to worry about. And though it's very likely the card reader will only need a wheel replacement, if it's something more serious there's probably enough expertise right here on this board to fix whatever else might be wrong. Remember, this an HP67 - it was made to last!

Edit: about the cards, I think the standard pac came with a cleaning card, i'm not sure if all the other pacs did too, but maybe they're the missing cards. The cleaning cards are not magnetic cards, they're just slightly abrasive cardboard used to clean the r/w head of the card reader.

Edited: 31 Dec 2006, 4:37 a.m.

Quote:
So there are 2 cards missing.

Those may be the red cards for cleaning the recording head of the card reader.

(just guessing ... )

She said the cleaning card is there....

Guess I will know know when I get it.

Les

Compared to the pricing of our infamous friend, I got a bargain:

Cobubba Pushes an overpriced 67

Happy New Year!

Les

I saw that earlier when I was looking at your auction. I was going to bring it up but then I thought "hey, no knew information there" and let it go. It does provide a useful contrast between what an honest seller does and the actions of the gold-standard for HP-calculator detritus.

Quote:


Those may be the red cards for cleaning the recording head of the card reader.

(just guessing ... )


My Standard Pak has fifteen program cards and a cleaning card. If you don't get all fifteen let me know and I will burn a copy of any missing ones for you.

My bet is it looks fairly awful. I have seen quite a few HP67 machines with similar wear to the keyboard background. When they show up that mottled be very careful cleaning it. The silkscreened legends tend to come off. I usually use window cleaner on keyboards.

Quote:
My bet is it looks fairly awful. I have seen quite a few HP67 machines with similar wear to the keyboard background. When they show up that mottled be very careful cleaning it. The silkscreened legends tend to come off. I usually use window cleaner on keyboards.

That's probably why the legends tend to come off; window cleaner is highly corrosive. Better to use a damp cloth, hot/warm water and a small amount of soap. That will take off what should come off and leave on what should be left on.

My plan was to soak it for a few hours in gentle bath of Palmolive....

Like the father in My Big Fat Greek Wedding--"put some Windex on it!"

Maybe this is a good spot to relate my experience: I've used rubbing alcohol and a cotton swab on many calculators with good results. It's amazing how much dirt you can get from a clean looking calculator. I've also used acetone (in the guise as nail polish remover) on one calc to remove the owner's name scribed with a sharp felt pen into the back of a woodstock case. (NOTE though that this removed enough of the case plastic to remove the engraving as well as the felt pen - it left a barely visible smooth spot in the plastic case)

On one woodstock however, the rubbing alcohol removed part of the yellow print on the keyboard and also left a hard white deposit on the black face of the keyboard.

I've tried every mild solvent I can think of (soap and water, windex) and it will not remove the deposit.

I even removed the keyboard and ran it through the dishwasher! (Not recommended, but the keyboard still works fine after reattaching to the calculator)

In summary, rubbing alcohol works fine 90% of the time as a cleaner. Acetone dissolves woodstock cases (and probably the other series as well). Woodstock keyboards are dishwasher safe!

Anyone else seen the white deposit problem?

Edited: 1 Jan 2007, 11:53 p.m.

I guess the question I would have is whether your experience with the Woodstock series applies to the Classic series, i.e., is the constitution of the keyboard (material, surface, how the legends are embossed/painted/whatever) similar?

The rubbing alcohol/q-tip approach worked fine with my HP45, but that was a single owner machine in great shape (I hope so, I paid according for it!), and it cleaned up beautifully with little effort. Likewise with my 97--very little glossing around the keys, and when I got some gunk out of the depression (for landmarking) in the 5 key, the keyboard looked like new.

But the mottling in the pictures you see concerns me. I can expect wear and glossing from regular use, but I do worry about "cleaning" off some of the legends in my desire to get it clean.

As for acetone--oy vay! I am no chemist, but it is a ketone, and its cousin methylethylketone (MEK) is used to weld plastic bits together in repair jobs in the capable hands of Randy Sloyer and others who know what they're doing. I wouldn't go anywhere near my calcs with ketone--it "melts" plastic and other polymers, which is why women (and some men) use it to remove nail polish!

Thanks for all of the helpful feedback. With customs and whatnot I won't see this for a couple of weeks (she ships it tomorrow) and I will give you the verdict when I receive it.

Les

Avoid alcohol on keyboards. It will affect the lettering. Some Woodstocks and HP67s are particularly bad ab out this. Even water can affect the lettering.

If you have to use a solvent try white gas (or Coleman campling stove fuel). It is particularly good at removing sticky tape residue and many types of markers. On the cases (not keyboards) a more agressive solvent is Oops! paint and marker remover. Anything stronger will ruin the case.

Oxidation and alcohol stains respond well to Armor All.

I have had good luck removing keyboard grunge with Windex. For a couple of really bad cases I have used it in an ulrasonic cleaner.

I am getting the distinct feeling I am screwed here no matter what I do. It sounds like I will be afraid to handle the thing, much less use it, for fear of doing irreparable damage. It is going to Randy anyway for a cardreader fix and general refurbishment. Maybe I should just leave it packed up and forward it and not take the chance the chance of doing further damage. I know I have not paid top dollar for this (67s in better cosmetic shape can go for considerably more) but that doesn't mean I wan't to use it to experiment with funky cleaning techniques.

Les

At the risk of repeating the obvious, I have just been looking at Randy's web site http://fixthatcalc.com/general.htm . It sounds as though he cleans the calculator as part of the general service, so I certainly wouldn't take any chances at cleaning the calculator if it was going in for a service. The only thing that is stopping me from getting my 10C with the row of dead keys and my 11C with the keys that require excessive pressure is the worry about having to pay UK customs on the calculator when it comes back (there is also inertia).

I don't know how it works in the UK, but when my HP41CV was returned to Canada from Randy in the US I was NOT assessed duty, even though I think a reasonalble estimate of the calculator's value was declared by Randy. I guess the fact it was a repair being returned was noted by the Canada Customs assessor and it was let thru. I certainly hope that this is normal practice and not just a fluke. I have a 65, 67, 97, and battery pack due to go into Randy in the next few weeks--about $400US of service work--and it would kill me to have to pay duty to get my own stuff back!

On a general note, that is one of the big hassles for me in purchasing from US sellers. Canada Customs assesses 14% of the declared value (basically the combined federal and provincial sales tax I would pay if I bought the thing at home) plus an $8CDN handling fee. Over Xmas, I got lucky--I got a parcel from the UK clearly declared as 55GBP in value, but no duty assessed. Today, a 41 card reader arrived from plamoid, and I have shell out another $27CDN (about $23US) to claim it. I figure that if the sellers of my awaited 65 and 67 declare the actual paid value, I have another $110CDN in taxes and fees to dish out. I don't ask sellers directly to lowball the declared value, but I sure don't complain when they do!

If you haven't used Randy before you should when you overcome your inertia! Be prepared for a wait though--he recently advised me his backlog is pushing about 10 weeks, and he is not beating the bushes for new business. Such is the burden of being so gifted, I guess! But I am willing to wait--besides, I have another dozen HPs and a couple of TIs to play with!

Good luck with whatever you do.

Les

Edited: 2 Jan 2007, 1:12 p.m.

Thanks for the reassurance Les. The 10C and 11C have been sitting in a drawer for a year or more, so there's no urgency. I got a late 16C from Germany (no duty between European Union countries) and an equally late 15C from somewhere else in Europe; I know they are late because the keys on both are re-painted 12C key. I bought a new 12C some years ago, but really wanted a 10C, so I got a tatty one because mint ones are so expensive; the 11C passes the keyboard self-test if you handle the dodgey keys just right. There does seem to be an element of randomness in Customs; I also think, as has been discussed in this forum, that they sometimes value the item on the basis that it is a 20 year old calculator rather than the collector value

I don't know how it works elsewhere - or even in the USA for this particular matter (return of repaired calculators), but:

I almost always travel with my foreign-made cameras (Canon, Pentax) and lenses. If they look new enough, there is always a chance that when you return to the US, Customs will think you have bought them abroad during your trip and they would be subject to duty. However, before leaving the US, you can register your equiment (of any kind, as far as I know) with US Customs by filling out a form with the items and their serial numbers, and then Customs stamps it. You carry this with you, and when you return, if there are any questions, you drag out your form to show that you owned these things BEFORE you left and therefore they are merely reentering.

I would think that you could do this for things mailed out of and back into the country, too - but I'm not quite sure to whom you would show the form. Of course, if you told them that it was to be repaired, I guess Customs could argue that its value had been increased. But, you could argue strongly that you shouldn't be charged as if the calculator was new to you. I presume Randy (and others) could put an invoice in with the calc showing the cost to repair, and then you would argue to Customs that they should use that value for figuring any duties.

This all assumes that government agencies are rational - quite an assumption perhaps?!?!

Holy Cow! Do not use OOPS! It's literally a friggin paint remover not a cleaner! JC

David, Steve--

I posed a few post-sale questions to the seller, and evidently got her concerned enough that I was going to be unhappy that she unpacked the article and took some photos in natural light for me.

The verdict--I have to go with Steve's more reassuring impression on this one. There in NO EVIDENCE of lettering fading or peeling off. The silver trim remains intact all around. The mottling seen in the original pics is due to unflattering flash interacting with grime and normal glossing around the keys. There are some small scratches.

I think this will clean up just fine without radical measures.

Now, off to apologize to the seller for getting her worked up with all of my questions!

Les

Edited: 2 Jan 2007, 9:30 p.m.

Les,

I have the HP-67 Standard Pac in front of me now. There are 15 cards plus ONE RED cleaning card. Here are the cards:

1.  Moving Average

2. Tabulator

3. Curve Fitting

4. Calendar Functions

5. Annuties and Compound Amounts

6. Follow Me

7. Triangle Solutions

8. Vector Operations

9. Polynomial Operations

10. 3X3 Matrix Operations

11. Calculus and Roots of f(x)

12. English-SI (metric) Conversions

13. Arithmetic Teacher

14. Moon Rocket Lander

15. Diagnostic Program

16. RED Abrasive Card for Cleaning Recording Head

Trent
Trent

David, Steve I would email you the new pics from the seller for your verdict, but neither of you have email addresses registered with the forum. I do. Email me if you want to take a look at these pics and chime in.

Les

Yes, OOPS is a paint remover. As mentioned earlier, I use it to stubborn remove paint and marker from calculator cases, not on the keyboard. It works great in that application and does not damage the case (but be careful... too much friction from rubbing can).

[quote]
Les,

I have the HP-67 Standard Pac in front of me now. There are 15 cards plus ONE RED cleaning card. Here are the cards:

/quote]

Your list agrees with my carrds and my manual with the exception that card 9 is "Polynomial Evaluation" not "Polynomial Operations".

My manual shows all cards as the A version and my cards are all A versions. But I know that there is a B version of the Diagnostic Program (card 15). Does anyone know if there are other B versions?

Les, Palmer

Having unearthed some more of my HP stuff (most is packed away at the moment due to home redecoration) I've come across my Standard Pac which has the following non A versions:

Calculus and roots of f(x) Version B

English - SI conversions Version B

Diagnostic Program Version C

My manual, copyright 1976 code 00067-90021, shows all cards as A versions apart from English - SI conversions and Diagnostic Program - which are both shown as version B.

Regards
James

Palmer,

You are correct. I misread the card, it should be "Polynominal Evaluation".

All the versions are the same as yours.

tm

Quote:
Les, Palmer

Having unearthed some more of my HP stuff (most is packed away at the moment due to home redecoration) I've come across my Standard Pac which has the following non A versions:

Calculus and roots of f(x) Version B

English - SI conversions Version B

Diagnostic Program Version C

My manual, copyright 1976 code 00067-90021, shows all cards as A versions apart from English - SI conversions and Diagnostic Program - which are both shown as version B.


If my memory is correct an earlier thread showed that versions B and C of the diagnoatic program provide testing of some functions not tested with version A. So, my question is, what were the changes to the Calculus and roots of f(x) card and the English - SI conversions card. In particular, were there errors in the A versions?